When first learning how to sharpen on a benchstone, I suggest starting with a Scandinavian ground knife also know as a Sabre grind or as I call it in this post, a Scandi grind. Copyright © 2020 TOPS Knives / All Rights Reserved. Secure your membership in this community by joining in the conversations.www.tormek.com. http://tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3190.15, https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/hand/cutting-chisels/knife-blade-grinds/14119/, Quote from: Jan on January 24, 2017, 01:40:42 pm, Quote from: WolfY on January 26, 2017, 05:00:23 am, Quote from: Jan on January 26, 2017, 10:20:18 am, Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. Changes in angle generate extra friction. The ESEE RB3 now features a Black Oxide Stone Washed finish and ESEE logo. Scandi Grind Angle. Wolfy, my devices are built from MERKUR which is a Czech toy metal construction set. The reason I suggest starting with a Scandi ground blade is because of the large, flat bevel that you can lay flat on a stone, without guessing the angle. Don't be afraid to sharpen your knives! Our modified Scandi Knives (B.O.B., MSK, Scandi Trekker, etc.) Our modified Scandi Knives (B.O.B., MSK, Scandi Trekker, etc.) With Scandi (Sabre) blades the grind will start below the midway point, towards the edge. A blade's grind is its cross-sectional shape in a plane normal to the edge. Quoting “Patriot Dan” on the blade forums: “There isn’t one angle really but 22 degree inclusive (11 per side) is a typical swedish midway edge angle for a scandi grind. Regardless, the point I was trying to make is that as the thickness of the blade increases, so does the grind height for a given angle and therefore my "ideal scandi" in 2mm is a full flat grind at 1/4" with identical primary bevel angles, identical secondary bevels/microbevels depending on how you sharpen it and identical edge toughness. Strengths: The theory of sharpening a Scandi is easy to understand. I have prepared a drawing showing the situation of a knife blade with scandi grind and micro-bevel. Because we hand-grind the edge on each knife, there are slight variations in the angle of each. A robotic hand could be designed and programed to measure the edge angle of simple grinded blades automatically. Scandi grinds kinda suck. The specified edge angle in the plans is 30 degrees inclusive. Now there are so many YouTube videos on the subject it no longer seems worth the effort. The RB3 features a Scandi grind, 1095 steel and Micarta handles. A true Scandi Grind doesn’t have a secondary bevel. The primary angle is engineered to match the quality of the steel and intended use. The primary bevel continues to become the cutting edge, with no deviation or angle change. The attached pictures show a blade of a new Swedish Morakniv made of stainless steel hardened to HRC 56-58. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. Extremes in either direction are usually too specialized for all around use. Sabre Grind – (AKA “zero sabre grind” or “scandi”, short for “Scandanavian” grind) – The sabre is the same as a flat grind, except the bevel doesn’t extend all the way to the spine. Scandi grind is also known as zero grind. are slightly convex final edges, but since the Scandi grind leaves the knife steel somewhat thinner, the final edge is less than 25 degrees (although the grinders are still set at 25 degrees). My carving knife come from the factory with Scandi grind (which is flat) and included angle circa 30 degrees. ZERO SABER GRIND (Scandinavian or “Scandi” grind) Similar to a flat-ground saber, but without a secondary bevel at the cutting edge. To re-sharpen the Scandi grind you need a flat grind stone. Scandinavian or Scandi Grind: Arguably, the most traditional bushcraft knife blade grind. The High Flat and Scandi grinds are ideal for whittling or woodworking. ZERO GRIND A grind similar to a full-flat grind but without the secondary bevel at the cutting edge. I purchased a set of plans from SWC, the current maker of the Ray Mears knife. Last year on the margins of some microscopy thread we have discussed why some outdoor knives with scandi grind have unusually small edge (included) angles. Jan, do you use MEKANO parts for your building projects? The V shaped, flat grind bevel often starts between the spine and the edge and tapers evenly towards the edge. Designed by adventurer and woodsman, Reuben Bolieu. A Scandi grind blade can be very sharp, but when slicing into thick material, such as slicing a potato, it can seem very dull. The edge that came on my kabar was extremely dull and couldn't carve wood for beans. Murray Carter, 17th Yoshimoto Bladesmith, shares his insights into Scandi Grinds and makes some recommendations. With a Scandi grind, the angle from the point of the edge continues at a very acute angle, to a point a centimeter or so up the blade. T o sharpen the Scandi grind by hand, place the bevel flat to the sharpening stone and work on the whole edge. Thus its far better for tough work like carving wood, and it is easy to get the factory bevel angle on the edge when sharpening. Page created in 0.228 seconds with 21 queries. In other words, it is a single grind only. The leading edge of a scandi may not be quite as durable as a full flat grind with a secondary bevel at the leading edge. Scandi Grind. So the variation on a TOPS’ edge is usually between 24 and 26 degrees on each side. You place this part on top of the stone. A Scandi grind carries a single bevel that runs to zero degrees. The Scandi is ground to zero keeps the edge as thin as possible with no change in angle. High Flat ground blades bevel starts high up near the spine. A true scandi edge angle is acute enough to be reliable and sharp. The horizontal part of the angle bracket, as shown in the image above, will take most of the spring force from the hinge and … 6 years ago. My grandson is very involved with Lego robotics. You can tell the angle by simply laying the knife on its side because the bevel makes the grind obvious. Instead, the sabre grind will typically only be ground to around the mid-way point on the … 1) "Scandi grinds are more delicate than other grinds." Grind differs from blade profile, which is the blade's cross-sectional shape in the plane containing the blade's edge and the centre contour of the blade's back (meaning the shape of the blade when viewed from the side, i.e. That is the quintessential modern scandi grind knife. The angle can be anything from 15 – 25 depending on use. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Scandi grind is defined as a flat grind and is often intended for sharpening on a flat stone in an outdoor environment. Ken, for kids Lego is much easier than Meccano or Merkur. clip point, spear point, etc. I don't use my knives for throwing I use them for bushcraft. I could have just changed that edge to a smaller angle, but I elected to put a scandi-grind on it and now that I am part way through the procedure there is no reason to not complete it. Initially, it doesn’t matter what kind of motion you apply, so long as the bevel stays flat. The Scandi grind is optimised for woodworking. Since the bevel on scandi grind knives is so large and flat it is pretty easy to get the right angle for sharpening. The Scandi Grind, along with the High Flat Grind, is more common today. I never got around to adding images. Scandi grind (Long secondary bevel) can't be used for cutting as its end (if used as long primary bevel) will result in very thin and breakable edge. Using a sharpening stone, the bevel lies flat against it. The grind leading from the full thickness of the blade material begins very close to the cutting edge, producing a wide wedge shape at the cutting edge. The Scandinavian Grind. The Scandi edge can be sharper than a hollow grind edge, and has a lot more material supporting the edge. Welcome to the Tormek Community. For me the secondary bevel is visible by the necked eye while the micro-bevel is not. The orginal RB3 with uncoated blade and Camp-Lore logo has been discontinued. Then I cut the angle bracket to fit, so it wasn't sticking out past the flat part into the pivot. Our grinders are set to 25 degrees. There’s not one specific angle that all knife manufacturers use. I guess there is some cunfusion regarding the grindings and the edges and I might be able to spread som light in this issue. The result is a very keen edge that provides excellent control of the cut. Wolfy, there is a question what is the difference between a secondary bevel and a micro-bevel. The kind of grind that a bushcraft knife has can change the blade’s whole dynamic, so the blade grind has to be both versatile and strong. Most scandi grind knives have a broad straight part at the edge. The Scandi and High Flat Grinds are also the recommended grinds for survival knives because they're far easier to sharpen in the field. Looks like a full flat with secondary bevel at the leading edge would have more metal at the leading edge back towards the back of the blade for a fraction of an inch. Scandi grinds have a flat section of the blade that starts at the top of the bevel and runs to the spine. The Scandi runs to the edge with no angle change, which makes it unique. This is a good view to explain this element of the design. The plane of the bevel continues to create the cutting edge. Only use the scandi grind if the knife originally came with a scandi grind. My laser goniometer could be assembled from Lego Technic without any difficulties. However, when it comes to sharpening a scandinavian grind, it’s easy because the long continuous bevel is obvious – which goes right out to the knife edge. The primary angle is engineered to match the quality of the steel and intended use. The length of the scandi grind is 6 mm and the edge (included) angle is 22 to 23°. Because the angle is preserved through successive sharpenings, you, your son, and grandson, will never have to regrind the blade to restore the profile! Often has a strong edge that doesn't chip easily (depending on grind angle) Weaknesses: Not as good at slicing as other grinds. A Scandi grind could be considered the opposite of a flat grind. Thanks for pointing out Mekano and Merkur. If that’s the plan, go steep on the bevels so that the microbevel can still be the cutting angle you want. Perfect, this is the answer I was looking for. The Scandinavian Grind is a wide flat bevel that runs to the edge of the blade There is little or no secondary bevel. This refers to the blade’s grind or primary bevel, its secondary bevel (if one exists) and the angle at which the bevel(s) are ground. By varying the angle you will quickly feel where the … Before someone points out how much better their mora carves than some traditional folder they have does, remember that the edge on the mora has an inclusive angle of about 20 degrees, or 10 degrees per side, whereas the traditional folder (saber ground or FFG) probably still has a 40 degree inclusive or 20 degree per side angle on it. If you previously registered for the discussion board but had not made any posts, your membership may have been purged. Unlike many other grinds, the Scandi runs to the edge with no angle change in what is also known as a zero grind. Go for Scandi grind, chisel grind, flat grind, and convex grind but always avoid the hollow grind. Sharpening the Scandi grind. Login with username, password and session length. Scandi: The Scandinavian Grind is a wide flat bevel that runs to the edge of the blade, according to Ragweed Forge, and there is little or no secondary bevel. This is a myth. M and M seem more durable and can provide (as seen in Jan's work) a practical alternative to machinist work. So the variation on a TOPS’ edge is usually between 24 and 26 degrees on each side. As to Scandi grinds, a lot of people really do like a microbevel edge so that they don’t have to remove steel from the entire bevel to sharpen the knife. Bushcraft Knife with Scandinavian (scandi) Grind – Left Bushcraft Knife with Flat Grind – Right. If the grind makes the cutting edge extremely thin, your blade’s strength is significantly reduced. 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